Sunday, December 30, 2007

The Reality

Ugh! OK so apparently what I say and what I do are not quite matching up these days. I am not used to this paradox. Usually if I say it, I do it.

I have been unable to keep up with the raw eating even during the day. We have been running so much that I haven't had the time to shop and prepare so that I can bring the foods with me. We have had parties or get togethers every night and don't get me wrong we are having a ton of fun. It just feels bad that I am not sticking with the eating.

And then I think of what Abraham says that it doesn't matter what you eat, it matters how you FEEL when you are eating it. So I am going to go with the flow and enjoy the next few days eating whatever. I am not going to get caught up in it. It is a strange time to try and commit anyway.

I will however begin anew after the new year. I have ordered the educational program from www.chidiet.com and it is due to be delivered some time next week. That will really help with the motivation and I am hoping I will have some direction.

So, that is it. I hope I am not letting anyone down but I am just being honest and letting you know where I am at. I could have easily come on and posted some BS about how great I have been eating but I don't lie so instead you get the whole, hard truth.

See you after the new year!

Thursday, December 27, 2007



The first time I went raw I went cold turkey and made it for 4 months. Then I went totally off and back to eating every horrible thing. I gained back all of the weight I lost and once again I am looking tired and fat.

This time I decided to try and do it part way. Eat raw most of the time and not stress about it. Well it was working in the beginning. I was motivated and things were fine. Slowly however I notice my motivation began to slip and it suddenly became easier to just eat what my family was eating for dinner rather than make myself a whole separate meal. Then it was easier to do that at lunch too and heck, why not just forget the whole thing.

I have pretty much fallen off totally by eating everything cooked these last few days. I just gave up. I had so much work to do that I just couldn't bother worrying about it. It is frustrating but here is the way I am looking at it. I have found that this is a pretty common thing that happens in many different areas of my life.

I equate it to a pendulum. When in motion the pendulum swings rapidly back and forth. That is sort of what I have been doing with learning to deal with my eating habits. I swing one way to raw and then I swing the other way to unhealthy cooked and then back and forth I go.

I believe the key is that as the pendulum begins to lose its momentum it begins to slow down and the movement becomes less pronounced and begins to hang out more in the middle. That is where I am learning to live in regards to my eating. These ups and downs, failures and successes are a natural learning curve and with continued diligence I will find the middle ground.

I have decided I need to be more specific with what I will eat and what I won't eat or else I will find excuses to have a bite of this or that. Here is my new plan.

From now until the new year...
  • I will have only raw food for my daytime meals - breakfast, lunch and any snacks.

  • I will allow myself cooked food for dinner

After the new year...

  • I will be going back to 100% raw.

I believe my pendulum is losing momentum!

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

It's a Wonderful Life!!!


OK, I love, love, love this movie. It is one of my all time favorites and has been since I first saw it as a teenager. I watch it every year and cry my eyes out. I just finished watching it this year and once again I was reduced to a blithering mess...in a good way.

It is such a sweet movie and a great message. It really makes me think about my life and how blessed I am. I think it is so easy to lose track of all the wonderful things that we have in our lives and it is nice to stop and spend some time in gratitude for everything.

Of course you don't want to only do this just once a year at Christmas (even though for many years of my life that is what I did). Now that I know better, I do better and I make it a point to spend time in reflection and gratitude at least once a day. For me it is usually in the evening as I lie awake in bed. I think over my day and all the things I am grateful for. It is a great way to center and to fall asleep in a good place.
Of course as we near the end of 2007 and the beginning of 2008 so many people are looking forward to resolutions and plans for next year which is a positive and healthy thing to do. I think it is also good to look back in reflection at the year we have had and for all the things that we are grateful for.
I usually do this with my Christmas letter I send out. This year I did the video Christmas card and it was a light hearted and fun way to revisit my family's year. I plan on taking some more quiet time before the end of the year to look back at the changes and growth I have made personally this year. This will help me plan the next year. What is that saying "if you don't know where you come from, you don't know where you're going?" I find that to be especially true at this time of year.

Monday, December 24, 2007

Ooh La La Mojo jito!


Who needs alcohol when you can make a drink like this? It is absolutely delish and feels like quite a treat. It is fresh and tangy and the kombucha gives it a slight alcohol taste. I love this drink!

I got the recipe from G Living. You can watch a video of it being made if you like. I halved it since I was just making it for myself but as soon as I made it my hubby wanted some too so I should have doubled it.

2 Key Limes (I used regular limes)
5 mint leaves (I used more)
1/4 c. agave
1 pitcher sparkling water
2 c. ice
1 1/2 cup kombucha


Quarter limes and put in a shaker
Add agave and muddle (I put the mint in and then muddled)
Add ice
Add mint
Add kombucha
add water
Shake gently then release the bubbles and shake again
Pour into glasses
I don't have a shaker so I just did it in a glass and mixed it up. Enjoy!

Sunday, December 23, 2007

Still searching for help

After doing more research on the local detox center I found several people with bad experiences. I also searched other places that had nothing bad to say about them so I am going to pass on it and continue searching. If anyone has any suggestions or experiences with them I would love to hear about them. This is my number one goal for the beginning of 2008.





I am so ready for Christmas. I love this holiday. It is my absolute favorite! I love everything about it. I love the stockings, the tree, the lights, Santas, ornaments, making hot chocolate for the kids on Christmas eve and leaving cookies for Santa and carrots and oats for the reindeer. It is all just so perfect and fills me up inside. I can't wait to watch them open presents on Christmas morning and spend the day with my family all cozy and warm while the wind and snow whip around outside! What could be better?!?

Thursday, December 20, 2007

Health opportunity

Had a long talk with a woman at a healing center right here in Wheaton. It sounds like just what I need to really get myself on the right path. I feel like I am struggling so much with what to eat and how to eat. I see all these people who eat all different kinds of raw diets and they are thriving and thrilled with it and I just don't get it. I don't think I have found MY path yet.

I think what really threw me for a loop was when I made a big juice for my husband to help him boost his immunity and fight of a cold. I juice everyday and I like it. My husband had one juice and told me how much energy he had and how great he felt even though he was sick. I have never felt that. It made me even more certain that I need some help. I just can't continue to guess and hope I am doing the right thing and continue to be sick.

So this doctor does a huge amount of testing to find the root cause of your symptoms. In fact they don't even want to know your symptoms when you arrive in the office. They simply look at the results of the 20 page report from the blood test, urinalysis, neuroscan, heart rate variability, blood oxygen and more. From there he can see what your symptoms are and help you on the path to healing the root cause.

They also follow a raw food diet and teach classes, etc. I can't believe it is only about 20-30 minutes from my house. It seems too good to be true and now I just have to have a talk with the hubby so I can schedule an appointment and get started on the path to healing.

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

Conversation with Myself

"mmm, I could really go for one of those carmel chai lattes they sell at the Green Leaf Cafe. It is so yummy and I have just enough time to run in and pick it up before Aidan gets home from school."

"Do I really NEED the latte? It is loaded with sugar and has dairy in it. It is not good for me. I should just go home."

"Of course I don' t NEED it but I want it. It's cold out and it would be so warming. It would feel all snugly."

It isn't that cold out. The sun is shining and it feels like it is a billion degrees in this car. Just go home and make a green juice. It will taste good and just think of all the nutrients you will be getting."

"Yeah, that's true. It would be good and I'll bet I will be quite satisfied after I drink it. I always am. It's just such a pain to have to cut everything up and then clean the juicer when I am done."

"Oh please Michelle, it will take you 15 minutes to do it. That's at least how long it would take you to get out of the car and go in the coffee shop to get the latte. Stop making excuses and be good to yourself!"

"You're right! I will go home and make green juice. It will be wonderful!"

That's one for the good guys (or girl)!

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Back on the Raw Train


I'm back! I am making raw food again and liking it! Woo Hoo. I am off to go shopping to stock up the fridge. I cleaned it out by making this delicious Asian Salad. I made the sweet and sour sesame sauce from Snowdrops Sesame Chicken and then mixed it with bok choy, red and yellow peppers, broccoli, carrots, and green onions. I am letting it marinade until dinner but I can tell you that I already sneaked a taste and oh my goodness!!! It is good!!


sweet & sour sesame sauce

¾ c nama shoyu

¾ c honey (or agave)

2 cloves garlic

1 pc ginger as big as your thumb (equal to the amount of garlic approx)

2 T sesame seeds

2 T coconut oil

1 t sesame oil

2 t red pepper flakes


chop the garlic & ginger so it doesn’t jam under your blades, and put all into the food processor and blend till the veggies are well pureed. The seeds will float up with the oils when left standing, that’s ok, just stir when using.i made more that this recipe called for, because i will be using this on lots more veggies the next couple of days, as it is mind blowing good.
It makes a lot so either plan on using it for a couple of days or make half.

Monday, December 17, 2007

Weekend

So I had a great weekend. I watched two of my sons play their basketball games and they were very exciting games. I got a lot of shopping done and I even got to spend some alone time with my hubby. We also went to a fun, family Christmas party. It was a great weekend.

I guess the only problem was that I didn't stay raw over the weekend. The funny thing is that I feel fine with it. I didn't have any problems with it until I went to fill out my blog today. I guess since the name of my blog is Michelle's Raw Adventure I feel obligated to post about the raw food that I eat. So if I eat cooked food I suddenly feel like it doesn't fit in with the blog.

Now I ask myself, is this my life or is it my blog? Obviously it is my life so I shouldn't feel obligated to a blog. That sounds crazy but it is real.

I guess since it is my adventure then I am here to tell you about the good, the bad and the ugly even though in my eyes it's all good! So I ate cooked. I even had a chai latte (no coffee though so that is good). I had fish too. It was all good and I'm okay.

I do have to say that it is a bit harder to get back in the swing of things once I have eaten cooked. Suddenly it is just easier to eat what everyone else is and since Christmas is just around the corner I might as well just go with the flow and start again after the holiday...Oh, sorry, that is just my little inner voice talking.

So I will have to see how things go and try to stay healthy no matter what I decide to eat.

Only 8 days until Christmas!!!

Friday, December 14, 2007

Borrowed Earth Cafe


I am so excited because a new raw food restaurant opened in the suburbs of Chicago! Only about 30 minutes from my house! Woo Hoo.

I went there this week to check it out and I was thrilled with the experience from the moment I got there.

To begin with, the owners Danny and Kathy were so friendly and nice. They welcomed me when I entered and took the time to chat with me about the restaurant, the raw food meetup group and raw food in general. They were genuinly nice people and you could tell that they weren't just trying to be nice.

The restaurant had some beautiful paint on the walls. I especially liked the red! Ooo la la. They had this ledge by the front window that was covered with rocks and looked really nice. The walls were a bit bare with some small photographs. When I got up close I could see that they were beautiful.

I ordered the Far Easter Wrap. It was really good. It came with a side of what looked like potato salad but was actually cauliflower and mushrooms in a thick sauce, some cucumber slices with hummus and a beautiful carrot salad. Everything was delicous. The flavor of the sauces didn't overpower the freshness of the produce. My favorite was the wrap. I loved the terriyaki sauce that was on it.

I really wanted to try their Rainbow pie but I was pretty full so I ordered some truffles to take home with me. One was coconut and the other I think was cinnamon. They were both very great and very satisfying.
So, I am thrilled that there is a suburban option for raw dining and I am even more thrilled that the people who own it are so wonderful and I hope nothing but the best for them!

Thursday, December 13, 2007

My Christmas Card

I hope you enjoy my family Christmas card!


Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Some fun experimenting.




















I don't know what has come over me but I have been perusing the net for raw recipes. I am suddenly overwhelmed with the urge to make all kinds of things. It started with the flax crackers, then some faux popcorn, then the carrot burgers, then a sort of Spanish rice concoction and finally some raw cookie dough.

I am out of control. I feel this powerful pull to make this food. It is strange because while I had a green smoothie for breakfast this morning I didn't have any of the green juice I have been enjoying before today. It is like the prepared dishes took the place of them. I barely had any greens today.

I don't think this is good. I need to make sure I get my greens and more water. Tomorrow if I still feel compelled to create than I will commit to at least one smoothie and one green juice. Good compromise. I am all about balance these days.
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So now about what I ate today. Hee hee, so much good stuff.

Here is how I make my flax crackers.

I soak the flax seed in water for a while to get them all nice and goopy. (I use the golden and the brown because I like the look of both of them mixed together)

Then I throw the following things in my food processor

  • tomatoes

  • onion

  • garlic

  • lime juice

  • cilantro

  • salt and pepper

  • ground flax seed (to get my omega 3s)
I mix that all together and then add the flax seeds and mix again.

I spread out onto my teflex sheets and dehydrate. Once they are firm I flip them and wait until they are nice and crispy. I usually leave them overnight.
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The popcorn substitute was really good too. I don't know if it tasted like popcorn but it was good nonetheless. I got the recipe here but it is pretty simple. I cut the cauliflower up into small pieces and dehydrated. Then I added a little olive oil and some nutritional yeast and viola!
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Let's see, the carrot burgers came from Alissa Cohen's book. They are a favorite of mine.

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The Spanish rice was a combination of recipes I have seen on the web.

I chopped up cauliflower in the food processor until it resembled rice.

Then I chopped up and added the following:

  • yellow pepper

  • red pepper

  • onion

  • cilantro

  • carrot

  • sun dried tomato

  • mushrooms
I made a sauce with avocado, lime juice, garlic, cumin, paprika, turmeric, chili powder, more cilantro, and some salt and pepper. I mixed it with the veggies and that's it. It was pretty good but a bit strong tasting for me.

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OK, the yummiest thing I ate today was the raw cookie dough recipe I got off freshtopia. You can watch a great video that shows it being made here. Wow was it good.

I ran some cashews through my juicer to make cashew butter and added some agave, vanilla, salt and cacao nibs. Delicious.
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Besides eating and un-cooking I have been working on my Christmas card. I am excited about it and can't wait to get it done. I will post it when I finish.



So I am off to make lunches for the kiddies and get some sleep.

Finally Able to Take Pictures...

Even though they aren't that great. I am hoping to get a new digital camera for Christmas since my old one finally died out. Oh Santa, I've been a good girl this year!

So here is my lunch today. I made carrot burgers last night and flax crackers yesterday and I put them together with some spinach, carrot and onion. I wish I had more vegies in my fridge. I would love some tomato on there. I knew I should have gone out before the freezing rain came. Now I am stuck inside with limited resources. But hey, this is still yummy.

More later!

Monday, December 10, 2007

heartburn, indigestion and bloating oh my

So whatever it was that got my stomach all out of whack has really set off quite a bit of trouble for me. All weekend I was struggling with it. I ended up going to the health food store and getting some papaya tablets to try and help. I was chewing on them all weekend.

Slowly but surely I seem to be getting better. I have been pretty careful about what I am eating. No more chocolate or nuts for a while. I am still going to keep taking the papaya. I have to tell you, the pain and annoyance of this heartburn is pretty severe. It really makes me careful. The only thing worse for me is the fear of my gallbladder attacks. UGH! They are ridiculous!

Anyway, I won't post what I ate over the weekend. I don't want to bore you! It was a lot of green smoothies and salads. I did go out to a mexican restaurant on Saturday night with my hubby and I had some fish.

I know, I know. It is the first meat I have had in 2 weeks. I said from the very beginning that I am not going to get hung up on my diet. I will not allow myself to take the joy out of life and feel guilty for anything I eat. This only leads me to feel like I can't do this and give up. I ate great for every other meal and snack so good for me!

OK, I am off to drink green juice and green smoothies followed by papaya pills. Keep your fingers crossed that my stomach will stay cool.

Friday, December 07, 2007

Tummy Troubles

Picture is a mayan diety holding a cacao pod.

I bought some raw cacao and fo ti yesterday. I decided to make a chocolate shake that is supposed to taste like a frozen coffee. I have been missing my coffee lately. In the beginning the tea was taking the place and now I am off all caffeine tea and only drinking herbal tea. It just doesn't cut it. I miss that bite to the drinks. There is a sharp bit when you drink coffee and some teas that is lacking in the softer herbal teas. I don't quite know how else to explain it so that is the best I can say.

The recipe called for maca and they didn't have any at the store I went to so I substituted cashews. Let me tell you, it tasted pretty darn good. It didn't have that bite but it was still very tasty. It was more like a creamy chocolate than a coffee and I enjoyed it.

The problem was that I started to feel a bit sick after drinking it My stomach got a little bloated and I was getting waves of nausea. I rested on the couch for a while and I noticed that my stomach was pretty bloated for hours. It didn't feel good and later after I ate dinner I could feel a case of heartburn brewing just under the surface.

Since I have never had the raw chocolate or the fo ti it could be either one of those that did it. I also remembered from the last time I went raw that almond milk used to give me a similar sick feeling so it could be the nuts. I am going to experiment to find out what is causing the problem.

Of course in reality I am probably better off without things like that in my diet. I guess it is just nice to have something to occasionally treat myself with. Hmmmm I guess that is a pretty emotional response to eating and must have some subconscious origin. I think that is a good starting point for some kind of process to uncover the source. I will make a note.

My eating was pretty bad today thanks to the drink but here goes:
Breakfast- banana
Snack - 2 oz of wheatgrass (from Jamba Juice)
Lunch- coffee drink
Dinner- Salad with romaine, cilantro, orange, pine nuts, avocado, orange miso dressing.






Thursday, December 06, 2007

Eat Pray Love

I just got done watching the Oprah episode that had Elizabeth Gilbert, the author of Eat Pray Love on. This is one of my favorite books of all time. I couldn't put it down and it made a huge impact on my life. Watching the show got me thinking that I really want to read it again. I have to get it back from my mom so I can dive in again. I read it so fast the first time and I think this time I will slow down and savor it a bit more.

The lesson that I took most from the book is one of self care. Having a husband, 5 sons and 2 dogs I haven't always taken as much time for myself as I would like. I guess I never really felt like I deserved it. Since finding The Journey and taking the time to focus on my own healing I have begun to believe that I do deserve to be healthy and happy.

I think that getting control of my eating is a natural progression for me. By feeding my body what it needs to repair itself from years of abuse I am saying yes to my own soul and I am saying yes to health which allows me to say yes to happiness.

It is a process, a journey and I am taking it with excitement and gratitude. Everyday is a new learning experience for me. I now look at things in a new way and it is so refreshing. When I have a craving I am able to look at it and see what it is trying to tell me. What am I to learn from this overwhelming feeling? Often my lessons are lessons of self worth and everytime I am faced with them I have the opportunity to learn and to grow.

So what did I learn on Wed? I learned that I have strong emotional ties to food as I am sure many of us do. As the day goes on I become more weakened by the cravings and the desire for something "substantial." I do so well until about 5:00 and then I begin to pace around and start looking for something to eat. It is a sort of yearning for something. I wasn't exactly sure what it was and then I stopped and got quiet. I asked myself, what am I looking for? The answer that came to me was passion. Hmmm. I need to explore this. I do feel my life is lacking in passion. How do I find it? Which way do I turn? I will continue to contemplate this.

Breakfast-smoothie with banana, spinach, orange and flax
snack - banana
lunch- green juice with spinach, apple, celery, cucumber, kale, lemon, ginger
snack - orange
dinner- salad of spinach, dandelion, tomato, pine nuts, dried blueberries and garlic with a dressing of orange juice, olive oil, miso. Dandelion is too spicy for me.
cooked butternut squash with coconut oil, agave and salt.












Wednesday, December 05, 2007

Brrrrrr!

It is cold here and there is snow as far as the eye can see. I am cold but I am sticking to my eating. In fact, I find myself not really wanting to eat the cooked food for dinner. Of course I am still doing it but I think that will be changing soon.

I miss the raw summit 2. I liked getting up every morning and learning something new. I liked that I could stay in my jammies wrapped up in a blankie and still learn from people all over the world. I mean how cool is that?

I have been incorporating more green juice into my diet. I am surprised that I like it. I have been adding one big huge apple to it to make it sweet. Today I only added 1/2 the apple and it still tasted good. Success.

It is quite silly but I get excited by the idea of drinking it. The color is so fantastic and I can see it swirling around in the glass and wow, I don't know, I like it. There is something cool about taking a counter full of vegies, putting it through a machine and drinking it. You just know you are getting so many good things in your body.

I am not getting headaches from it anymore. It only happend a couple of times. I did try to figure out why but didn't get any answers so I can't fill you in on that but the good thing is that it's over.

So here is what I've eaten for the last few days. I may have skipped a day, I don't know.

Monday
Green Smoothie with banana, kale, orange, tangerine, and flax


Snack- Green juice with kale, lemon, apple, celery, cucumber, parsley.


Lunch
The most delicous salad!
I used romaine lettuce and spinach
1 orange (I juiced half of it and cut up the other half)
1/2 pomegranite (I juiced half of the seeds and put the other half on the salad)
Pine nuts
1/2 avocado cut in chunks

I made the dressing with the juice, olive oil, garlic, salt and pepper.


Dinner
Fennel Salad (I didn't really like it. It wasn't horrible. I just wouldn't make it again)
Cooked Butternut Squash soup


Tuesday
Green smoothies with banana, flax, kale, and orange.


Lunch- Raw Broccoli soup made with almond milk. (again, not a favorite. I ate it but I won't make it again)


Snack- Green juice with kale, cucumber, celery, lemon, ginger, dandelion, and apple (this one was a little bitter but after a couple of sips it was ok)


Dinner- Cooked spaghetti squash and brussel sprouts with coconut oil oil and a little salt.


If I get hungry I will have a piece of fruit throughout the day. Yummy!

Monday, December 03, 2007

Where does all the fat go?

So I've lost 4 pounds this week since I have changed my eating. I was watching Oprah the other day and they had A LOT of people who lost A TON of weight. I am talking hundreds and hundreds of pounds. At the end of the show they were all on the stage and I starting wondering how much weight they had lost all together. I was hoping they would tell us but they didn't. Then I started wondering where all the fat goes. I mean think about it. If someone weighed 500 lbs and lost 300 of it, that is as much as 2 people. Where does all of that go? Imagine 2 big blobs of fat sitting next to you, that's a lot of fat.

Now, I know we excrete it out of our body and I guess it is mostly getting flushed down the toilet but then what? I couldn't help but imagine big junkyards of fat from all the weight loss that occurs. I know it's silly but that is what I was thinking.

It got me really thinking that I think it is just energy. Energy that gets trapped in the body and can't get out. Once you start unclogging and moving your body the energy is able to flow and it flows in your body only to flow out again easily and effortlessly.

Hmmm Ok, enough of the silly philosophy. Here is what I ate today:

Green smoothie with spinach, banana, and water.

Kale Cole Slaw

Cranberry Fruit Salad

Cooked Butternut Squash Soup with 1/2 Ezekiel English muffin

I roasted 1 squash in the oven and cut it up. I sauteed onion, garlic, carrot and celery in some olive oil. I added some broth and cooked until soft. I added the squash and blended. I added some salt, pepper, nutmeg, cinnamon and a touch of curry. It was yummy even though the consistency reminded me of the squash I used to feed my kids when they were babies.

Sunday, December 02, 2007

Winter Challenge

Ok, you can say what you want, but eating raw, cold foods in the midst of a winter snow storm is a bit difficult. All week I have been OK during the day because I have been staying in the house for the most part and not going out in the cold weather. Well it was a little different today because I was out in the cold, blowing wind with the snow and the sleet and when I got home the last thing I felt like eating was a salad. This is when I begin to wonder what is the best approach.


Anyway, here is what I ate for the last two days:

Friday: Breakfast Green smoothie with banana, spinach and orange with some ground flax seeds thrown in.

Lunch Nori rolls with sunflower seed pate, carrots, cucumber, and red pepper.

Dinner:Sauteed Broccoli Rabe with garlic and olive oil

Saturday: Breakfast Green smoothie with banana, spinach, and orange with flax seeds

Lunch: Cooked vegetable soup

Dinner: Cranberry fruit salad and later some cooked butternut squash

I had some friend over last night and they were all eating pizza that my husband made, drinking beer, eating pita chips and Oreo cake. I decided to make the fruit salad so I could feel like I was getting a treat for myself and I shared it with them. They really liked it.

It is funny to talk about eating raw with people. One of the men seemed genuinely interested. He rides his bike a lot and takes good care of himself so he was asking legitimate questions. The funny thing is the talk of protein. He has read many health magazines and he was giving me the proper amount of grams of protein needed to keep muscle mass.

I told him about Tim Van Orden and his quest for the Olympics while eating a raw vegan diet and how we don't need as much protein as we've been told. I talked about amino acids being the building blocks of protein and that if you eat enough green leafy vegetables you will be able to make the protein.

He listened respectfully and I don't think it convinced him :o) I sent him the link to Tim's website so he can check it out for himself. After all, we all have to find our own way and I know that this way of life is so bizarre to people who are only exposed to mainstream ideas. At least we had an intelligent and thought provoking conversation rather than some of the other conversations I have had with friends.